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He supports the idea that the rich should pay not taxes, have no regulation, and be entirely untethered in their exploitation of labor. I have seen right-wingers joke about shit like this. We have a system already where a small portion of the population doesn't work, primarily because of disability, disease state, etc. A smaller portion doesn't work but only because the labor market is currently not on their side competing against 50 people for each job, etc.

HOWEVER, the propagandists on the right constantly want the bulk of the working population to think that there are a huge number of these Xbox couchers than there actually are, to fan the flames against the lower socioeconomic classes, and more importantly, keep the taxes of the rich low and their power high. Could you imagine what would happen if their lying propaganda became reality?? There would be such a backlash against the left, whether its due to the left's policies or not, that you wouldn't see a democratic president for 25 years.

The bottom line is, an effective society need people working, period. And by working, I don't necessarily mean someone getting a paycheck each week; a parent staying home taking care of kids is work!! An opposite opinion is not grounded in reality. Despite what RWers think, most people who aren't working aren't simply 'lazy'. I have always thought of fFrom each according to his ability, to each according to his need" as a sort of contract between the people.

If you have the ability to work, then you should contribute to the rest of society in the best way that you can. In return for your contribution, the rest of society provides you to have your needs met. The doctor works to keep people healthy. The farmer works to feed people. The tailor works to clothe people. The carpenter works to provide people with shelter. In return, the ones I just mentioned don't have to worry about their health, their food, their clothes, and their homes, because society provides them with these things.

If someone has the ability to work but does not wish to contribute, they don't have the greater good of society in mind. They are being selfish, and this kind of behavior would lead to the unraveling of the whole system. There are thousands of people early retireing in 30's's due to the ACA and k plans.

My wife retired this past June after 22 years as a teacher she is I will retire next April I am in the tax field at Some of said upon hearing of our retirement and especially our plan to use ACA subsidies to pay for health care that we had a duty to work, even though we have more than enough assets and after tax investments to last way past our pensions kicking in and then SS. Heck, even without SS we should be fine. This has been discussed numerous times in early retirement forums.

If interested, I would recommend Mr. No financial interest in either of them by the way. Just helped me to formulate a plan. Response to kelly1mm Reply 9 Tue Aug 26, , That's interesting I am currently at training for work, Adult Medicaid. Our instructor today talked about early planning and how important it really is.

Response to kelly1mm Reply 9 Wed Aug 27, , I think you are doing society a FAVOR by retiring early, thereby giving some younger workers a chance.

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You are certainly no "drag" on the economy, you planned well, and are hurting nobody. I had to wait until I was 65 to retire from full time work and supplemented by taking a part time job with a nonprofit that I was volunteering with at the time. It was only 15 hours a week and very rewarding. That lasted until I had a serious illness that required extensive hospitalization and inpatient rehabilitation and a 4 month recovery period at home. But I'm fine now at least from that illness. So many people "say" they are going to have to work forever, but in reality your body just gives out in various ways.

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Also, you have age discrimination to deal with. If they want to clear out their higher paid older workers they'll eventually get you out. Who needs the stress? Our tax system defiinetely needs some adjustments, but no one should be forced to work. If the inheritance tax was 50 percent and an heir paid their tax and doesn't have to work for a living, then I would have no problem with that. And they aren't even paid close to what the work they're doing is worth, and that is just the work itself and does not include shitty middle managers and other co-workers who like to throw their power around creating a hostile work environment for their underpaid subordinates.

If corporations and the overpaid and overcompensated CEO's had their way, they'd pay us what they're paying workers overseas, which is pretty much zilch. This has to stop. Most people are willing to work, and work hard, but the right wing like to think that no one works as hard as they do, and that everyone else wants their money which is blatantly false.

In the long run, I would like to see us move towards a society where people don't work their asses off for shit wages, and are discouraged from taking their earned vacation, only to retire and drop dead within a couple years, or deplete their retirement funds and pensions paying for excessive health issues related to the many years of stress they had while working. I'd like to see us move towards a society where corporations and the wealthy didn't pillage the commons for profit, and then hide their money away so they don't have to put anything back into the system that helped create the opportunities for them in the first place.

The national policy is to have people being obedient workers with a minimum wage that is about 33 percent where it should actually be adjusted for inflation. And the policy is to keep people appearing to be functional, and debt is to encouraged as the norm.

Had people not had their purchasing access with credit cards, the post financial meltdown and unemployment would have left people feeling much more a connection on the level of the millions who suffered in the Great Depression.

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The greed is with corporations, et al. There are no boundaries of what they would consider themselves successfully profitable enough. They want more, more, more! If one wanted to use some religious connotation, one could look at it as both greed and gluttony.

As for the people of the United States, we are generally overworked. Too much of our time is with active work. And too many active work to the tune of little vacation time, sick pay, pension, and Social Security. This is what the U. I think the word "ability" has enough inherent flexibility embedded within it that people can conclude it doesn't mean to drive themselves beyond their personal capacity to function.

Marx obviously understood for each person it would be different. But I'm not an expert on Marx so Response to Shankapotomus Reply 16 Wed Aug 27, , That was one of the issues I have with the idea Even today there are people who are technically disabled yet under such a system may be quite able to do some work. Based on some definition created to suit the needs of the society.

That is where I think we need to be careful, who decides what someones capabilities are? Furthermore, who should have the power to force our guarantee that people deemed capable work just to exist within that society? Response to Puzzledtraveller Reply 28 Wed Aug 27, , Well, there is one factor that could limit a society's need of work and that is if it is already producing and gathering enough resources to meet its population's demands.

You don't want to over produce or over collect resources because that is potentially damaging to the environment. So an intelligent and environmentally sound policy for using the planet's resources might also be a deciding factor in determining how many people we want working. If we are an efficient and environmentally conscious society by then, we may discover it takes a small work force to meet our population's needs.

Response to Puzzledtraveller Original post Wed Aug 27, , But my own experience with disability and the "system" over the last few years gave me a lot of insight into this very question. The fundamental problem before the Affordable Care Act was the irregularity in inadequacy of medical insurance and medical records. People lost the ability to hold down the job often through being caught in the stressful vicious cycle of contingent labor because of increasing medical problems.

While the "right" likes to always blame this on "lifestyle", you might also blame this on a few things the Right caused like the pesticides in rural areas that might have caused DNA damage later on in life. Instead they get stuck in bureaucracies where every appointment is spaced a month and a half apart so getting anything done takes a year! To give you an example: I was doing better because the ACA improved my situation in some respects.

I wanted to try some work. But all the appointments I could get in that respect could only be loaded a few weeks out at a time! And in the mean time, when I tried to do contingent-style labor, the Social Services system screwed me over in such an epic way see my sig , that the stress has actually undermined some of my medication, and I'm starting to wonder if I am work ready. Another thing to consider along those lines is regularity.

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Demand for rent and bill payment is regular. The sort of work that can pay those bills often has a regular structure. But sometimes health problems can be extremely unpredictable, involving random attacks. You can be fine one hour, bad the next. Also sometimes people are carrying severe disabilities blindness, debilitating tumors, etc.

The most frustrating question of all for most people who are having trouble getting SSI is gaining acknowledgment of how "vague symptoms" interfere with modern sorts of knowledge labor, as opposed to manual labor. SSI seems very geared toward manual labor issues, whereas people are trying to figure out what to do when they can't work because of pain, fatigue, under-diagnosed mobility issues say due to some nerve damage problem, or a combination of problems rather than than one clear Diagnostic Code. Despite the TV commercials, not everyone has a lawyer. Besides, how do you afford stuff like transportation, returning all those calls from recruiters who assume everyone has a cellphone, or pay for that hair dye that the well-meaning job coach thought you should invest in?

All you can do is hang on by your fingernails until you can get SSI - and then when you can relax, try to get "work ready" if your health makes you employable. But really I think there should be some sort of bridge program people can get faster than SSI. It's such traumatic experience and such a big investment to get SSI, there's probably quite a bit of momentum to stay on it. Why not just help people stabilize their living situation up front, see if their disabilities can be addressed, and help them get back into the workforce when their crisis is resolved?

One other thing that is complicating the whole matter: One of the chief problems is health appointments and the diagnosis timeline can take even longer than the bureaucratic social programs one! They were still disabled before that - they just didn't have the appropriate label, and the doctors weren't necessarily buying their "vague" symptoms yet. If they were already in "they system", they were probably perceived as mere malingerers and misdiagnosed. I agree, people should work. Life on the dole is a life without purpose. I'd like to see a world where a place was made for everyone, and everyone enthusiastically prepared to contribute something.

But I feel it is society who betrayed the individual first here. People are left without a place. They are left without resources. They are driven to homelessness when they are unable to work. There is not much of a welcome mat for their contributions. Given that productivity has improved by a factor of 4 since the end of WW II, no If one person can make the stuff that took four people to make in , the only way that everyone can work is to drastically cut the standard work week while making all wages liveable.

The economy will remain in depression as long as half of American families are poor or near poor--that means no discretionary income to buy stuff. Would you live off someone else's labor? There is no point in human history has it been possible for people not to work because they don't feel like it, unless they are wealthy and live off the labor of others.

You expect others should work to support you so don't have to? How is not having the ability to live off the exploitation of others "dangerous to progressivism"? What in progressivism endorses the perpetually idle? In the past century, work has become less physically demanding, not more. Prior to industrialization, most people worked the land. That was hard back-breaking labor, but they raised food to feed their families.

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With industry, came hard, factory labor. Deindustrialization has led to fewer jobs in manual labor and more service occupations. The trajectory has been toward less, not more, physically demanding labor. In capitalist societies, everyone but the idle rich work. The unemployed strive to find employment, and work damn hard by looking for jobs. Even the physically disabled work, and they want to do so. What they object to his impediments that make access impossible for them.

Indolence is not a value under any ideology. It is just plain laziness. I want help available for those who need it.

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I want people who are disabled to be able to get help. I want people who are ill to be able to get help, and I want people who have lost jobs to be able to get help until they can find another, comparable job. I respect the work ethic. I've worked myself since I was a teenager. But I object to people like the ones who live in a house in my neighborhood. Two women with five kids who live in a house with subsidized rent which house is probably in better shape than my own.

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